tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23189415.post5325220464746505039..comments2024-03-24T04:09:03.396-04:00Comments on The Cross Reference: Religion: Genesis 9:6 and the Death PenaltyJeffrey Pinyanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08758581112217835988noreply@blogger.comBlogger9125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23189415.post-5100741084853222042007-01-05T20:00:00.000-05:002007-01-05T20:00:00.000-05:00The debate is over, but I see this verse as requir...The debate is over, but I see this verse as requiring that blood be spilled as justice for blood split. <br /><br />When you kill a man, you separate him eternally from the world. No one can reach him now, nor can he reach anyone else to be of help or to bring joy. Every potential is ended. There is no way to repay for this. Almost everything else can be repaid. This cannot. <br /><br />Justice demands death. <br /><br />The issue is not deterence, either. It is justice. Justice rises several levels above punishment. Moses' standard (which, of course, was God's) repayment or death. When I hear of a thief repaying 7 times, I feel good about the world. When I hear about him jailed for 5 years, I do not. Caging is not good for anyone. But, that's just me. <br /><br />As for abortion, where is the justice in abortion? How can abortion and the death penalty be spoken of in the same sentence? To steal an entire life, not to allow a single breath of a living being to be breathed, how can this be equated to justice for a murderer?<br /><br />No equivalence.Kevin Knoxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16788817477327510023noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23189415.post-69032476493638351302006-12-22T11:26:00.000-05:002006-12-22T11:26:00.000-05:00I just split the comments so they'd be one topic e...I just split the comments so they'd be one topic each. Back to devil's advocate on the consistent ethic of life. <br /><br /><< It's not consistent to be against abortion and for the death penalty. >><br /><br />What if the ethic was "Don't take innocent life" or "don't take life without due process of law"? There are plenty of people who are against abortion but for the death penalty because the death penalty is exactly that, a penalty - it applies only to murderers and the babies aren't murderers. So I don't have any problem with people who would allow the death penalty but not abortion. I have a far harder time seeing how someone would allow abortion (taking an innocent life) but not the death penalty. <br /><br />But the death penalty is *certainly* messed up in the U.S. I'd be glad to see the standards of proof made far stricter in death penalty cases; not merely "beyond a reasonable doubt" but "beyond any doubt" would be a bare minimum. (Which may be an argument for making standards of proof stricter all around, but it's most urgent in cases where someone's life is on the line.)Weekend Fisherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10425001168670801073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23189415.post-28967514040030992192006-12-22T11:19:00.000-05:002006-12-22T11:19:00.000-05:00Aww, I gotta do another round of devil's advocate ...Aww, I gotta do another round of devil's advocate here though. I think I'll break it up to this one (side note on the Koran) and then devil's advocate on the ethic of life. <br /><br />As a side note, on the Koran, the disturbing part is that in Islam there are not later revelations about mercy to show them a more excellent way. Christians aren't really in any danger of reverting to Moses because Jesus has come since. The Muslims, on the other hand, think that what Mohammed said in the Koran is the definition of morality, and that there is none higher than that. Not only was Mohammed far harsher than Moses (e.g. maim a thief rather than requiring repayment), but he hasn't been surpassed by one greater than him (in their eyes) either ...Weekend Fisherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10425001168670801073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23189415.post-23178251328906124732006-12-20T11:32:00.000-05:002006-12-20T11:32:00.000-05:00Japhy,
One of the many things I admire about the ...Japhy, <br />One of the many things I admire about the Catholic Church is their stance on the Consistent Ethic of Life. (I just typoed accidentally and almost left <i>Lice</i> in place of <i>Life</i>. Glad I caught it... Lol). <br /><br />It's not consistent to be against abortion and for the death penalty. <br /><br />I know we probably agree on these things...Joshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03787975345969006068noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23189415.post-23768400078364133922006-12-19T14:34:00.000-05:002006-12-19T14:34:00.000-05:00I'm not against punishment for crimes. Forgivenes...I'm not against punishment for crimes. Forgiveness and punishment are not mutually exclusive. I have no problem with life imprisonment; I don't see a need to ever repay murder with murder.<br /><br />If one man kills another in cold blood, then he has indeed dishonored a man made in God's image. But shouldn't we honor that part of the murderer which he can never sully or lessen by keeping him alive -- by which I mean the fact that, no matter how evil that man is, he has been made in God's image?Jeffrey Pinyanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08758581112217835988noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23189415.post-77545379083323739732006-12-19T12:27:00.000-05:002006-12-19T12:27:00.000-05:00Great points all around. To a person who uses Gen...Great points all around. To a person who uses Genesis 9:6 to support their views, I would say that the Bible also encourages that adulterers & adultresses be publically stoned. Do we really want to go back to that primitivity? <br /><br />So many Christians judge the Koran because it reads <i>"Kill all the Infidels"</i> yet they fail to see all the passages of Scripture in the OT that are harsh against the Insraelite offenders.<br /><br />Great debate here, Japhy.Joshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03787975345969006068noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23189415.post-28800232590962277442006-12-18T23:55:00.000-05:002006-12-18T23:55:00.000-05:00The U.S. justice system is messed up, no doubt. T...The U.S. justice system is messed up, no doubt. That's a separate question from whether capital punishment is ever right. In the Law of Moses (which we're not under), the capital offenses were considered to be the fault of the offender. <br /><br />Playing devil's advocate here, what, now we say "Don't kidnap someone and hold them against their will or we'll kidnap you and hold you against your will"? Are we ready to get rid of prisons -- and arrest -- because of the similarities to kidnapping? <br /><br />Justice means that turnabout is fair play. A kind of domino effect is a huge problem, even seeking justice. Mercy is higher than justice; failing to stop the evil is lower than justice. Tricky stuff.Weekend Fisherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10425001168670801073noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23189415.post-32515204887617742462006-12-18T15:11:00.000-05:002006-12-18T15:11:00.000-05:00One way I've heard that Genesis 9:6 supports capit...One way I've heard that Genesis 9:6 supports capital punishment is that it implies that, <i>because</i> humans are made in the image of God, when one human kills another (dishonoring God by destroying something in His image) that human must die, or else we're not standing up for the sanctity of being made in God's image.<br /><br />Not that I agree with that, it's just an explanation I've heard.Jeffrey Pinyanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08758581112217835988noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23189415.post-38920944629872678132006-12-18T15:07:00.000-05:002006-12-18T15:07:00.000-05:00I've always thought the death penalty was wrong by...I've always thought the death penalty was wrong by principle. <i>"Don't kill or we'll kill you."</i><br /><br />How absurd is that?<br /><br />And take into account the success rates for defendants with court appointed attorneys vs privately hired attorneys and the scales weigh heavily in favor of those who hire their own attorneys.<br /><br />How is this justice?<br /><br />Good post, way to make me think.Joshhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03787975345969006068noreply@blogger.com