tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23189415.post2778592573957425170..comments2024-03-24T04:09:03.396-04:00Comments on The Cross Reference: "Jenga" Mass, part three: The priest's replyJeffrey Pinyanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08758581112217835988noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23189415.post-43347606046463507952008-03-01T15:23:00.000-05:002008-03-01T15:23:00.000-05:00All you really needed to do was agree with the oth...All you really needed to do was agree with the others in the group not to invite this priest again, pray for him, and move on. In other words, vote with your feet. If enough people never invite him back, he may begin to get the message.<BR/><BR/>This exchange of letters was bad for both of you. For you, it presented the danger of pride and lack of charity. For him, an opportunity to solidify his position and have a ready answer the next time he is challenged.<BR/><BR/>No clear winner here, except the forces of evil, perhaps.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23189415.post-55734308113553517892008-02-26T17:26:00.000-05:002008-02-26T17:26:00.000-05:00God bless your perseverance! What drivel from him...God bless your perseverance! What drivel from him; it's called rationalizing.<BR/>Philomena from CAFAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23189415.post-7046053525778656312008-02-26T15:07:00.000-05:002008-02-26T15:07:00.000-05:00Thanks for the post. I am heartened by your faithf...Thanks for the post. I am heartened by your faithfulness, and I think, in general, we may be seeing a distinct turning back to the 'old paths'. But it takes men like you to fight the good fight. Again, my thanks.Gretchenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16468550732181534405noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23189415.post-23765708398092753412008-02-26T11:50:00.000-05:002008-02-26T11:50:00.000-05:00Jeff, I also responded here. I think I finally un...Jeff, I also responded <A HREF="http://godfearin.blogspot.com/2008/02/understanding-roman-law.html" REL="nofollow">here</A>. I think I finally understood what the priest is trying to say.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23189415.post-15487165596194620972008-02-26T09:40:00.000-05:002008-02-26T09:40:00.000-05:00What a narcissistic priest. Jeff - thanks for tak...What a narcissistic priest. Jeff - thanks for taking the time to respond to this and for taking the effort to let him know his abuses aren't welcome even if it falls on deaf ears. <BR/><BR/>It is clear his heart is in the wrong place and so his body (ears) wont be able to hear what you have to say. <BR/><BR/>I don't think he grasps the amazing power of the mind to convince a person to do/believe something utterly irrational (like the things he's saying).Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23189415.post-30146653645116271142008-02-25T22:54:00.000-05:002008-02-25T22:54:00.000-05:00to the "expectant father" - I enjoyed joining the ...to the "expectant father" - <BR/>I enjoyed joining the community for Evening Prayer today, and if you saw me, I guess I saw you too (although I don't know who you are)!<BR/>The seminarians are in my prayers!charles pinyanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07705554520435547922noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23189415.post-64792699614267785032008-02-25T22:25:00.000-05:002008-02-25T22:25:00.000-05:00Expectant Father: Thank you for your words of enco...<B>Expectant Father:</B> Thank you for your words of encouragement. I'm blessed to have "a father for a brother", especially one who takes his vocation so seriously and celebrates the Mass faithfully... and his homilies are always insightful and enlightening. :)<BR/><BR/>I am glad that in your trials you are growing firmer in your resolution to respond to God's call (your growing "hunger for ordination") rather than becoming discouraged and leaving us behind.<BR/><BR/>The chapel where our group attends Mass once a month is a beautiful one: it faces the east, it has a high altar with a beautiful tabernacle, a sanctuary with six or eight minor altars facing north and south, a "people's altar" with baldacchino dedicated to Our Lady of Miraculous Medal, gorgeous stained-glass windows depicting various saints and popes, and pews arranged antiphonally. I'm working up the courage to ask one of the priests at the chapel to say Mass in the Ordinary Form <I>ad orientem</I>... maybe even at the high altar... maybe even in Latin! (It could be a learning experience.) It could be a private Mass. I wouldn't mind being the only one in attendance. I just think it might be good for my soul, and I would ask for it to be offered in reparation for liturgical abuse.<BR/><BR/>But I also need to concentrate more on worshiping God during Mass; I haven't been letting myself focus on Him as much as I know I should.<BR/><BR/>Thank you for your comment, and may God bless you and your fellow seminarians. I will pray that the Lord will grant you wisdom and grace to be faithful to His Church and offer Him the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass in a fitting and humble manner.Jeffrey Pinyanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08758581112217835988noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23189415.post-82383047249612563692008-02-25T21:43:00.000-05:002008-02-25T21:43:00.000-05:00Japhy,I am always encouraged when I meet or read a...Japhy,<BR/><BR/>I am always encouraged when I meet or read about Catholic young adults who take their faith seriously. The fact that there are people such are yourself and the other members your group has kept me motivated during difficult times at the seminary (coincidentally the same one your brother attended, where he taught one of my preaching classes, and where I just saw him a few hours ago).<BR/><BR/>I am sorry that you had to suffer such a travesty as you described in your original post. I can certainly sympathize: imagine what it's like for us who formally study the Church's liturgy and carefully practice how to celebrate it as the Church asks, to the honor of God, and then have to endure all sorts of abuses! At least it makes us hunger for ordination all the more!<BR/><BR/>If I may transmit some advice that I received a few years ago: the best way to put an end to abuse and inanity in the liturgy is to present something better; that is, present what the Church asks for in a way that is clearly, if not irrefutably, better.<BR/><BR/>Liturgical abusers rarely are convinced by liturgical law, unless the abuse is unintentional due to error or ignorance, and often (a minimal charity prevents me from saying always) suffer from the (dare I say arrogant) perspective that they know better than the 2000 years of Church teaching and tradition. The way to reach them is to show how beauty, intimacy and humility are best manifested in the proper celebration of the liturgy. Unfortunately, some have hardened their hearts, and it is up to the Holy Spirit to prick them back into life (although pointing them to 2 Samuel 6:1-7 migh help!). Let us pray for all the Fathers "Bill".<BR/><BR/>On a positive note, priests being ordained today are much less likely to commit intentional abuses such as those you described. I believe none of my classmates would even think about doing what you described. Please pray that we will remain always faithful and obedient to the Church's directives for the liturgy (and everything else).<BR/><BR/>God bless you and your lovely wife.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23189415.post-23880889705942651762008-02-25T20:47:00.000-05:002008-02-25T20:47:00.000-05:00moonshadow: I don't think anyone in our group is d...<B>moonshadow:</B> I don't think anyone in our group is discerning a vocation to the priesthood or religious life (apart from myself... I think I'm being called -- several years down the road -- to the permanent diaconate). The group exists for two purposes, really: to re-incorporate young adult Catholics (in their 20's) who are feeling a little left out of the Church (because they're on their own, or they don't know other people their age), and to bring us together in prayer to support one another.<BR/><BR/>I would say that anyone discerning a call to the priesthood (in line with the "hermeneutic of continuity") would have been a bit put off by his manner of celebration. I remember one time, about a year ago, I attended a Saturday morning Mass at a parish nearby, on my way to Allentown, PA. I had my Liturgy of the Hours with me, and was praying it before Mass started. That Mass also had some liturgical aberrations, but nothing as drastic as what I saw in November. After Mass ended, as I was leaving, the priest asked if I was in the seminary (perhaps because of the breviary I had and my demeanor during the Mass); I responded that I was just a man in need of prayer. I couldn't help but thinking that, if I was in the seminary, Mass done in an abnormal way would not be a help for my liturgical formation.Jeffrey Pinyanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08758581112217835988noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23189415.post-36264023880142969362008-02-25T19:31:00.000-05:002008-02-25T19:31:00.000-05:00Small group Liturgies aren't the same as Sunday Li...<B>Small group Liturgies aren't the same as Sunday Liturgies in a large church. </B><BR/><BR/>How is it he had such a bad pastoral read of your small group? I'd say he misjudged based on your age. <BR/><BR/>You needn't answer this publicly, but were there any candidates for the priesthood among you? Could his inclusive approach to the liturgy be seen as an encouragement to vocational discernment?<BR/><BR/>His reply to you <B><I>is</B></I> orderly. If only his celebration of the Mass were equally orderly in the first place, well ...Moonshadowhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11277057132720569896noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-23189415.post-60884698867483857272008-02-25T19:25:00.000-05:002008-02-25T19:25:00.000-05:00Japhy:This sounds like something one of the Presid...Japhy:<BR/><BR/>This sounds like something one of the Presidential candidates would have written to explain away some of her stuff.<BR/><BR/>I worked in the Legislature for 12 years and drafted my share of bills that became laws. I have to admit to using some double-speak so that my member could get his legislation passed. But, when it comes to the Church, those games are dangerous and should be avoided.<BR/><BR/>For what purpose, pray tell, do the Holy Father, the Magesterium and the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments exist? As Cardinal Arinze says, the Church's sacred treasure, the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass, is too important to not be governed by rubrics.<BR/><BR/><BR/>He makes absolutely no sense whatsosever. I think he's come down with the virus called the "Spirit of Vatican II" and reads things into the text than reading what the actual texts have to say.<BR/><BR/>Is he saying that St. Hipolytus's words are superceding the Church's rubrics? That's a real stretch. <BR/><BR/>Thanks for sharing this letter.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com